OPINION: Jumping The Gun – The UKIP Response To The Russia Crisis

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32 Responses

  1. Patrick Dearsley says:

    I’m dismayed to be reading such tosh on kipper central. Betrayal of the British people?? Putin is a nasty piece of work. You don’t have to support him just because he sticks up for Russia. What we need to beware of is the EU, now displaying “solid support” for us(yeah right), using that perception to wring yet more out of the jellyfish May.

    • Darrell Goodliffe says:

      Hi Patrick,

      I made it clear I dont support him. I do however support the truth and justice and neither of those are served by convicting Russia over this. Just because he is a “nasty piece of work” which I agree he is, doesnt make him guilty in this instance.

      • Patrick Dearsley says:

        Well I for one am prepared to accept what evidence, scientific and circumstantial, there is as enough to convict. If it walks like a duck etc etc. which is not to say that it isn’t a v convenient diversion for the establishment to blow smoke at us re the continuing craven sell out on Brexit.

        • Darrell Goodliffe says:

          Problem is Patrick there is no scientific evidence to link this to the Kremlin – thus far all we really have is the word of Theresa May

        • Anjela Kewell says:

          Patrick, I have to wade in here. With all due respect we have had a leader (Blair) who told very similar lies to those we are hearing at the moment. There is no evidence that Russia is involved. There is plenty of evidence that Porton Down themselves makes this toxin. They have stockpiled many toxins and chemicals.

          On top of all this the Russian people are being insulted. Innocent people who actually do like their leader (our friends live there and they see a genuine warmth for Putin every day). So many innocent lives were unnecessarily used in order that Tony Blair could boost his i ternatio al standing. Iraq is a mess and has spawned ISIS. Are we really going to sit back and let the same thing happen again because the May government want to boost her standing on the international stage.

          Until there is direct proof and until we see transparency from this government I will not condemn another democratically elected Christian country. I too support Israel and have seen the venom Uk has thrown their way and I do not approve of Putins history. However, he has done no worse than the British government or the Americans or indeed the EU who have destabilised so many countries.

    • Jake Bennett says:

      Patrick Remember Blair’s ‘weapons of mass destruction’ speech in Parliament. Yes, not long another Prime Minister Blair over the Dispatch Box took us to war on a lie, resulting in the deaths of 100s of thousands civilian casualites and loss of many British soldiers lives.
      You are naive to put so much trust in the government never mind your cavalier attitude to ‘due process’.

      • davidL says:

        And not only that Theresa May supported the Iraq war too. In fact at the 2002 Tory conference she praised Blair & Bush saying they “deserved the gratitude of everyone for standing up to the forces of evil” over Iraq. Of course what that really means is that she, like Blair & Bush, is a willing tool of globalism.

  2. John Carins says:

    This article misses the point that there is a long catalogue of Russian misdemeanours and this nerve agent attack is just a continuation of Putin’s multi stranded hybrid war against the West. The nerve agent attack is outrageous and represents a final straw. Fast Governments reaction has put the Russians on the back foot and the Russian response or lack of it points further to their guilt or inability to explain how they lost control of their nerve agent and probably their GRU/FSB. Those who follow a conspiracy theory or demand further “evidence” are just deluded. Normal criminal cases are concluded in court and evidence is presented and contested. This incident will never end in a court of law for very good reasons so any “evidence” will be manipulated and used as propaganda. Gerard Batten has got it right and we UKIPers must not become apologists, doubters or use this event for political gain like Corbyn.

    • Darrell Goodliffe says:

      Hi John,

      Put simply, there is no hard evidence to support any of your statements. The British government is engaged in a campaign of blatant lying and untruth and incidentally, I salute the brave people at Porton Down standing firm against this:

      https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/first-recorded-successful-novichok-synthesis-was-in-2017-by-iran-in-cooperation-with-the-opcw/

      &

      https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/boris-johnson-attempt-to-refute-my-sources-on-porton-down-the-most-hilarious-fail/

      Do you have the evidence to refute the claims made in these blogs?

      • John Carins says:

        I’m not offering “evidence” but only an opinion based on what is known, probability and some knowledge of NBC. As I say there is a long list of other events perpetrated by the Russians which are either suspect or directly attributable to the Kremlin. You might want to ignore this and the clear motives of Putin. Putin is taking revenge on the West. The West is to blame for not properly engaging with Russia post the fall of the Soviet Union..

        • Darrell Goodliffe says:

          Generally speaking though to convict someone of a crime you have to have evidence that proves beyond reasonable doubt they are guilty and that, as you willingly concede, doesn’t actually exist therefore no just conviction is possible. Your subjective conviction that he is “taking revenge” has no objective proof to back it up.

          • John Carins says:

            Darrell, the difference is that this will never be tried in a court of law. Using rule of law analogies is nugatory. I’m more inclined to believe the British intelligence than the Russian intelligence/propaganda.

            • Darrell Goodliffe says:

              Because there is never any British propaganda??

              • John Carins says:

                That’s not an argument relevant to the current state of this particular crisis. You have to take sides. A classic example is Lord Halifax tried to stop Britain from declaring war against Germany. Halifax preferred German propaganda to the reality that was so obvious.

                • Darrell Goodliffe says:

                  It is completely relevant. Both sides are capable of telling lies so the balance of decisions has to look at the facts and go from there. The fact is that the British government is providing propaganda as evidence and has not produced anything concrete.

        • Jake Bennett says:

          I don’t condone the poisonings in any shape or form but due process has to be observed – innocent until proven guilty.
          Putin offered his hand of friendship to the West when he came to power with the proviso that the West respect Russia’s sphere of influence. How did the West respond – they wanted to place a missile defence system on his border and let Soros run loose as he stoked up trouble in Ukraine. Would the Americans tolerate Russian missile systems in the Caribbean?
          Stop poking the bear.

          • John Carins says:

            I agree that the West has played its hand very badly after the fall of the Soviet Union. It was the same after Iraq (2003) and Libya. No follow up plan to cement the initial victories.

  3. Chris Dark says:

    Good article. A crisis manufactured for frightening the British people into fearing Russia and begging to be “looked after” in the soft cuddly arms of big mama EU. No conviction can be made until the evidence is produced….and of course these days we have to be careful that the evidence itself hasn’t been falsified. I recently received my invitation from UKIP to rejoin. However, I am inclined not to, since it is clear to me that the membership is sorely split over this Russian fiasco. People HAVE to remove the shades off their eyes and see this for what it is. We have a country, a culture and our children’s futures to save and all UKIP can do is split itself down the middle over Russian spies. That’s my opinion, as a rank unimportant outsider.

    • forthurst says:

      You can rejoin UKIP for £20. I disagree wholeheartedly with Gerard Batten over this issue and with my fellow members who slavishly follow the Tory line; I shall not be resigning because of this as I did not resign when Henry Bolton was elected Leader, much to my incredulity and disgust. There has to be opposition to the main parties in Parliament who have caused so much damage to our nation and people over many years. There are and will be issues that divide opinion amongst us but they are peripheral to the main reasons why UKIP exists and why it is still an essential political force.

  4. David Weaver says:

    Pontificate all you will but the short answer is. When you are responsible for producing nerve agents you are also responsible for ensuring said agents are securely protected. In this case Russia is responsible therefore must be held to account. Less we forget there are three people fighting for their lives as a result of this gastley attack that occurred on British soil . We have a government who are responsible for protecting us let them do their job.

  5. forthurst says:

    It is indeed disheartening that Gerard Batten has decided to support the government’s very weak case against the Russian state over the alleged poisoning in Salisbury; it is however a convenient smokescreen to cover the entirely true events in Telford and the entirely feeble and half-hearted negotiations to get us out of the EU. As with the case of Litvinenko, both cases as hits ordered by the Russian state in the ways they were allegedly committed fall as soon as the question cuo bono is asked. It is a sad fact that we simply cannot believe our government when there is a likelihood that they have been put up to lie about foreign affairs and as UKIP we have absolutely zero insight into what is actually going on behind the scenes. We need to focus on issues of which we do have knowledge and directly affect our nation and our people.

    Was ancient Israel in present day Palestine? In ‘The Bible came from Arabia’, Kamal Salabi has demonstrated that the geography and ancient place names of Southern Arabia correspond with Biblical descriptions of events.

    • forthurst says:

      Misspelled authors’ name: it is Kamal Salibi.

      Whilst looking at a gazetteer of Saudi place names, he noticed a remarkable concentration of Biblical place names in an area of 600 km long by 200 km wide (the region of ‘Asir). Ancient Hebrew, like Arabic, was written without vowels. Salibi believes that scholars of the sixth century might have added the vowels wrongly when standardizing texts, and so he went back to the original unvowelled Old Testament to prove his theory – and it did.

  6. David Weaver says:

    Really Mr Goodliffe , we do protest to much.

  7. MIKE MAUNDER says:

    This seems at the moment like, ‘You pays your money and takes your choice !’ With everything up in the air for want of evidence, I guess anything is possible. You won’t see this ever again, but Corbyn was sitting on the fence on this item, in the Commons, and his view was the need for proof. Oddly I find myself following this view. Now that is odd ! ! !

  8. David Weaver says:

    We have the proof, yet some are to blind to see. I say again there are three people fighting for their lives, one of them a Policeman who went to the others aid in the process of doing his duty. We, now have duty to them and our allies by our actions.

  9. David Weaver says:

    As I said some are to blind to see.

  10. Tacitus says:

    I also don’t understand the official UKIP response, but for a different reason. Sergei was a double agent, a corrupt intelligence officer who for money sold the names of Russian agents working in Europe to our SIS. He is no different to Kim Philby, who did the same thing but in reverse. This offence would be punishable by death in Russia, so we got him out of there and let him live here. So is it really a surprise that the Russians would try to kill him here? It was the job of our SIS to protect him, and it seems they abjectly failed. His son was already dead, surely that is a warning, and yet his daughter is still going back to Russia? Frankly if a British agent had managed to poison Kim Philby when he was living in Moscow, then we’d be celebrating it. As for the ‘nerve agent’, it isn’t as if this was a cloud of gas sprayed over Salisbury, it seems to have been extremely targeted, the policeman has thankfully fully recovered. Is there really any difference to using, say, cyanide? Is a nerve agent any worse than a red blood cell agent when the result is the same, that the person that you are targeting is the only one that gets killed? This phrase ‘nerve agent’ is being used to give the impression it was a wildly reckless attack when in fact it wasn’t. So just say ‘poisoned’ instead to take the passion out of it. So why is anyone surprised that Russians would poison their traitors living here, does anyone think we shouldn’t try to eliminate our traitors working against us abroad? For example those British citizens who became ISIS members and targeted British soldiers in Iraq and Syria? If our SAS went into Raqaa and executed the so-called ‘Beatles’ including Jihadi John would we really protest? For what its worth I believe that someone from Russia did do it, but who did it should be investigated, this guy made a lot of enemies it would seem. I wonder what he has been doing here for the last seven years? Even a peacenik like Obama authorised the ‘non-judicial execution’ of US citizens abroad when he allowed a drone strike on US citizen Alakawi.

    • David Weaver says:

      For those of you who believe the “Russian Propaganda” May I suggest you take leave of these shores along with the “Remoaners” I’m sure you will all be welcomed where ever you will feel most comfortable. Please close the door behind you. Thank you.

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